12 comments on “Warhammer Online and the recent billing issues.

  1. I agree. I don’t think anyone should start pointing fingers at Mythic and saying that they are now untrustworthy. They have responded lightning fast imo, and certainly have a positive attitude. People just love to complain, they have a right to their money back, but whinging and trolling and hating achieves nothing but mor work for Mythic.

    • Yes, at a certain point, it just becomes a blur. There is too much static in the air and its hard to discern the legitimate complaints from the bullshit.

      A few years back, I was working at a retail store and it was smack dab in the middle of the Christmas season. Busiest time of the year. Middle of the day and all our registers went down. Crashed hard. A few minutes later they came back up again. We thought nothing of it and continued about our business. A month or so later we found out that all the customers who rang out within about fifteen minutes of the system crashing were double-billed. Now, this was an electronics store, so there was some big charges there. People charged double for laptops, TVs and all the accessories that go with it.

      Now, did we steal from these people? No, not at all. There was a mistake, a computer glitch. The company did everything they could to get refunds to customers as fast as possible. However, once people heard about it, we were inundated with false claims. People saying they were double charged when they weren’t, people saying they were double charged when they had not even bought anything that day. It was crazy.

      The result? People who should have gotten refunds in a couple of days at the most, instead had to wait much longer. Both the company and the credit card companies had to investigate each and every one of those claims and the false or exaggerated ones just made the process go slower.

      In addition, we had to field hundreds of calls a day with people yelling that we stole their money, despite the fact that we told them up front that we were refunding the charges as fast as possible. It was ludicrous. We had no intention on keeping anyone’s money but people yelled “THIEF!!!!!!” anyway.

      This situation is the same.

  2. Stealing requires neither intent nor keeping the property, it is simply the act of taking something that is not yours:


    The money was not Mythic’s. Whether it is a human error or computer error, someone stole from these people, and that really is that.

    Definition semantics aside, I acknowledged that Mythic was responding rapidly, but this is a pretty big oopsie to be letting them off the hook. I would contend that you are dismissing legitimate claims that these people have against what’s been done to them, and that, to me, is more disturbing. You don’t blame the consumer for the company’s fault, nor do you pish-posh their anger and resulting frustration.

    • Hey! Cool, my first response from Syp! One of the reasons I started blogging and I am not being sarcastic at all! Thanks for stopping by, man!

      The legal definition of stealing requires intent or a mistake and then keeping the property. But, be that as it may, it is semantics and really does not matter. I would ask you to read my last reply, in these comments, and tell me if that is stealing? Did my company steal from those people? I think not.

      I agree, and said so in my post, that this is a big mistake. A big one and one that Mythic, unfortunately, may not survive. Nor do I “let them off the hook”, I said numerous times that those who were affected should voice their anger on the forums (in the proper thread), call Mythic and demand their money back and any other expenses incurred because of this mishap.

      I do not dismiss people’s complaints. Not at all. This was a horrible example of what can go wrong with computer billing. It hit a number of consumers very hard this weekend and I have sympathy for every last one of them. I simply believe that yelling thief, creating new threads that fog the situation and further muck up the process do nothing but extend the length of time it takes Mythic to get money back to these people.

      Yes, I do believe….scratch that, I know that some of the claims I have read on the forums are either exaggerated or completely false. Every time something like this comes up you have people coming out of the woodwork that hope to either make a quick buck or further sully the name of a company they do not like. It happens everytime and, again, this further increases the time that it takes to refund this money as the banks and Mythic have to sort through the claims to find out what is false and what is a legitimate loss.

      Again, I am in total agreement that this was bad, really, really, really bad. I am also in agreement that Mythic should be held accountable for their mistake and that everyone who took a monetary hit this weekend because of it should be completely reimbursed. I just disagree that it is fair to call it stealing and/or Mythic thieves. It clouds the water and makes the issue that much more difficult to deal with, for everyone concerned.

      Thanks again for stopping by, Syp!

    • It’s gotta be stealing….ya know? I mean, last week, I broke into a car and took the stereo out. Then 3 days later, I gave it back.

      That is stealing right?

      /end stupidity

      It is NOT stealing. It is an ERROR. If I get a bad meal at a restaurant, did they just steal from me? If the cashier at the local Best Buy hits an extra ZERO, and charges me 200 bucks for a 20 dollar item, then turns around and refunds it, was HE stealing?

      This is not stealing, so give it a rest Syp, oh master of drama!

  3. Hmm gotta agree with Syp and say its stealing and theft. They have effectively taken peoples money out of their account without reason. I also note that they have the records of old cancelled accounts some of which were also charged?! WTF are they doing exactly to charge old cancelled accounts? They should automatically be forced to destroy customers banking records if they cancel their account.

    You have to remember this isnt some small company this is one of the big hitters. One thing you cannot do is mess with peoples finances and my guess is they will pay the price with more subscriber losses.

    Pretty ironic considering it should have all been a good news story concerning the WAR bloggers visiting Mythic to get some inside info. You really couldnt make it up….

    • It is not theft. It is not stealing. It is a mistake, a bad one. There was no intent. If we prosecuted every company that made a billing error for theft, then there would be no room in the courts for anything else.

      The legal definition for theft or stealing (at least in the US) is: the generic term for all crimes in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes personal property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker’s use.

      I think we all agree that Mythic did not do this on purpose, correct? If we agree on that then calling it stealing needs to go out the window. It is not. Period.

      As far as having credit card numbers for canceled subs in their system, almost every MMO company does that. When I resubbed to WoW last time my old credit card information was already in, despite the fact I had canceled months ago. You can remove it in most cases but to do so you have to literally zero it out or change it to another form of payment. Otherwise it stays in there.

      I agree it was a bad time for this to happen. Mythic was just starting to get some momentum behind them and this crushed that. Can they survive it? At this point I am not sure but it certainly put a crimp in their plans.

      • Yeah but you are talking about the legal interpretation Im talking about how ‘joe public’ views it. If someone takes money from me without reason or my consent then its stealing. Im not saying people are going to sue the either, they will just leave the game.

        I dunno if they did it on purpose as I’ve not even seen their excuse for it yet, Im just surprised at the coverage you are giving it because I think its pretty undefendable *shrug*. Have they said how this happened? I would have thought they would be falling over backwards to explain exactly what happened and how they will make sure it doesnt happen again.

  4. Yeah, I have to agree with Brannagar on this one. It was a mistake. One that was probably due to a computer glitch. So did the computer steal? I think not. Granted it was a screw up of major proportions, but I don’t think it’s equivalent to stealing.

  5. And:

    “I would contend that you are dismissing legitimate claims that these people have against what’s been done to them, and that, to me, is more disturbing.”

    Really? Disturbing? LOL!

  6. You know I read you all the time 🙂 I’m usually bad at leaving comments tho, so I’m sorry this was my first time.

    If we step away from the whole “stealing” thing, which I’m willing to do — I was putting myself in the shoes of the people who were wronged by this and that’s how I’d feel — I think we’re in agreement on a lot of the points. It’s a forehead-slapping bad move, even though it was certainly an accident, it’s going to hurt Mythic a lot, and they didn’t have a lot of goodwill to begin with. I love the team, I do, and I wish WAR the best, but this makes me very apprehensive for their future.

  7. I’m just glad my monthly fee wasn’t due til this week. I’ve been checking just in case. I’m glad they are willing to pay the penalties that happen when they overdrafted, I know my bank charges like 30 or 40 bucks for every overdraft.

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